In terms of story-based games, there are certainly a lot that stick out, especially in recent years. That said, there are a few that stand out among the rest, like Mass Effect, for instance.
Why is that important, you ask? Well, because Lunacy Studios is creating a new story-based puzzle game, and they’ve got some industry vets from games like Mass Effect, Life is Strange, and Assassin’s Creed.
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I had the honor and privilege to interview the Founder and Creative Director of Lunacy Studios, Faris Attieh. While Lunacy hasn’t put anything out yet, their first project is incredibly ambitious, and even more interesting.
In a story all about grief, The House of Hikmah attempts to tackle some difficult topics that affect everyone. I sat down with Faris to discuss some of the inspiration behind this game and how exactly the studio plans on taking on such a heavy topic.
Interview with Faris Attieh of Lunacy Studios
Q. Mr. Faris, we’re here to talk about your brand new upcoming game that nobody knows anything about, so I’m one of the select few people who know. Thank you for the amazing honor of getting to see that and getting a chance to talk to you today.
Of course, thank you for having me.
Q. Oh, it’s really my pleasure. So without further ado, let’s dive right on in. My first question is what inspired you to make a game with such difficult themes? I know you have talked about the kind of loss that you experienced, but could you maybe elaborate more on that?
For sure, yeah. So, I had lost my dad five years prior to embarking on this journey. And I’ve lost people since then. And I’ve sort of become this unofficial subject-matter expert on grief in some sort of weird way. For various other reasons, I decided that I wanted to make games for a living.
But something in the back of my mind I always sat with, I wanted to tell a particular story. And as time went on, it just made more sense for it to be the game. And the story was, how do you grow from losing a parent? Because that was sort of the experience that I had. But in parallel to that, I realized that different losses had a sort of different color to them, if you will, a different shade. No two losses were the same. Losing one of my best friends is a very different experience from losing my dad, for example.
But grief is still a universal thing. It’s a universal experience. And so that was what started it all. And the other bit of it is, I wish I had the game when I was going through it. My dad passed away unexpectedly, and I was quite young. So my friends around me hadn’t gone through such a sort of personal loss. And so I turned to video games and movies, predominantly as a form of escapism and a way to have something relate to me in some way. And nothing really spoke to me directly. And so this is the emotion I have. If I can pay it forward in some way, that’d be it.
Q. That’s really beautiful. That’s awesome. On that subject, do you think you could maybe elaborate a little bit on what grief means to you and your team?
That’s a juicy question. I like that. Very interesting. I actually was thinking about something similar to this recently. The team is completely remote. We were spread across the world. We have people in California, people in Alberta, Montreal, Canada, Europe, and the Middle East. And what’s very interesting is that the universal thing is grief. A lot of people on the team had lost. Some of them lost [others] at some point [in the past], some even during the production of this game. And the actual experience, you know, their lived experience might be a little bit different, but there’s a sort of unspoken understanding when someone goes through it.
And interestingly, one experience that is very much tied to the game is this idea that, when I had lost my dad, the first year, I just kept dreaming about him so vividly, almost like it was a visitation. And I thought that was just a unique experience to me, just like me overthinking or whatever it is. And then many, many, many years later, a couple of people on the team, independent of knowing about this, once they realized the story revolves around dreams quite a bit, they shared that experience with me. And we sort of bonded over that sort of similarity of like, “How interesting.’ Because you also had these sorts of really vivid dreams, and it could be your brain just trying to process, you know, the sort of… infinite nature of death, at least in our lived experience. But that was really fascinating for me to see.
Even in some places where I’ll give you another quick sort of side tangent, during the music recording process. None of the musicians spoke English; they only spoke Arabic, and our composer only spoke English. And so it was so fascinating to see the ones that immediately understood the assignment without needing me to translate between them were the ones that did. So as I said, grief, having lost somebody or a parent, particularly. Some people didn’t need any further instruction. They just immediately understood and dove in. And that was also really fascinating, sort of to see this cross-culture even without language.
Q. Yeah, it can be a really powerful thing. It’s something that everyone kind of ends up experiencing at one point or another, and it really connects us. So it’s really awesome to be able to have that kind of experience, to be able to sort of see that just because there’s a language barrier doesn’t mean that we can’t connect or understand each other in a different way. So we’ll move a little away from some of the heavier topics for right now. It is a puzzle-focused game from what I could tell in the trailer. How difficult do you think those puzzles will get? Do you think they’re pretty simple, and it’s more about the experience and kind of like figuring it out, or is it more about the difficulty of it, like really racking your brain to kind of get through the puzzle?
Yeah, it was very intentional for us during development or ideation that we didn’t want it to be a walking simulator or sort of slight puzzling just to give you something to do as you’re experiencing the story. While it is an extremely narrative-focused game, we wanted to also have the game portion of that phrase be there. So, while it’s not an intentionally obtuse game, we wanted you to actually spend some time and figure these puzzles out.
And to add to that as well, the type of puzzles that we have aren’t sort of one mechanic repeated ad infinitum, a la Portal, for example, where it’s just like one mechanic repeated. It’s actually quite bespoke per level. Even within the level, you might have two puzzles that are quite different from one another in their logic or something, and so we always wanted to keep you guessing, and that’s quite intentional, because I think it weaves into the story that this is a difficult journey that Maya goes on. And we wanted to keep the players engaged as well.
Q. That’s always more interesting than just having a sort of natural, I guess, gamified version of what we know puzzles as now. On the subject of puzzles, do you have any particular puzzle you’re really excited for players to see? Maybe something that you worked on personally, or something you’re just really interested to see how players handle?
Yeah. So each level is based around a scholar and their work. Now, these are all polymaths. They worked on several different things in different fields. But we decided to sort of take a particular sliver, right? So if somebody worked on alchemy, they would also work on geology, for example. We just wanted to focus on alchemy.
So, with that being said, we have a scholar named Ibn Sina whose focus is medicine. He’s the father of medicine. But he also worked a lot on ideas of the soul and psychology and the like. And so, in his particular level – I won’t give any particular specifics away – a lot of the puzzles around that part of the game involve quite introspective things with Maya and her father, and her experience. And to me, that was a very interesting crossroads between the narrative and the puzzles and the mechanics that you have at the same time. It’s also a very beautiful level. And so, I think that level has a special place in my heart, I would say.
Q. On the subject of famous philosophers and everything like that, was it a difficult process to kind of decide how you would handle depicting them, or was it just something you were like, “This is what we want to do, this is how we’re going to do it”?
Yeah, when we started, we had a lot of time to research. A lot of times, we researched a lot. There was a lot on the internet, but there’s only so much you can sort of parse, some of it being sort of behind language translations and whatnot. And so, we turned to books and then eventually we had historians that we consulted, and the takeaway very quickly was we don’t know what they looked like, and we didn’t know what their personalities were like either. We just have their work that sort of lives on, and we took that as an opportunity. We’re like, well great, we want to stick true to their work and sort of highlight that and celebrate that.
But we also want to have fun and get creative with who they were as people. And so we wanted to create a very idiosyncratic cast where, if you just saw their silhouettes, you could pick them out in a lineup. And we wanted to root it in their work wherever possible. So, for example, you have Ibn Haytham, who, in his sort of lore, if you will, in real-life lore, failed to build a dam for somebody in Egypt and had to sort of feign madness to escape imprisonment. And so we were like, well, he probably lived in paranoia for the rest of his life. And so we kind of wove that into his personality, right? Or someone like Ibn Hayyan, the alchemist. Chemistry is very precise, and so we made him a very precise particular man, clean-shaven, unlike most men at the time, and very sort of well-kept and all the rest of it.
So, we definitely had a lot of fun with that, and we were able to sort of create a colorful enough cast to keep you entertained while delivering sort of more somber notes of the story while it is talking about grief. At the end of the day, there are a lot of moments of levity that we were very easily able to tap into, thanks to this sort of rich cast of characters that we were able to.
Q. And you’ve perfectly set up my next question for me, which is awesome. On the subject of humor and levity, a lot of people do use humor to kind of deal with their grief. What sort of brought about the idea of you and your team using humor in a story that’s primarily focused on grief and loss?
Yeah, I think the studio culture is quite light. We’re always joking around before and after meetings, sometimes during them as well. It’s just in our nature, naturally. And so we’re not very serious people who are always in tears all the time. And so that was organically going to sort of bleed through.
But you know, more specifically, it was very intentional to tell the story through a child’s eyes. We have a 14-year-old girl, sort of on the main island here, and seeing the world through a child’s eyes. She had this childlike wonder. The world’s very saturated in color, and we thought that that would help break and contrast well with the more somber themes and notes that we’re trying to hit on.
I think we were all in alignment early on, where, hey listen, if we are talking about sort of this heavy theme and then have what you’re doing and what you’re seeing also being heavy at every turn, it might be too much for the player. It might put people off. And it’s also just not how we experience grief ourselves. Personally, with family and friends, even at funerals and stuff, we celebrate the deceased, and we tell stories about them. We laugh all together in celebrating their life. And so that’s a very integral part, I think, of the grieving process. So it just made sense.
Q. It totally makes perfect sense. It’s how everyone deals with things differently. For some people, it’s humor, and for some people, it’s other things. As a jovial person myself, I totally get it. On the subject of viewing this world through the eyes of a young woman, your art style, I felt like it was really not what I was necessarily expecting when I first read what it was about. I was like, Oh, okay, it’ll be more somber or something, maybe a little bit darker and drearier. And it’s not, it’s very filled with color. It’s very gorgeous. And I was just kind of curious about what brought about that art style? Was it just a happenstance? Did somebody draw something, and you were just like, “That’s it, that’s what we’re going with”?
Yeah, yeah, no, brilliant. Yeah, so one side of it is the lens that we chose to see the world through is through a child’s eyes. And we wanted to contrast, like we were saying. But on top of that, we very intentionally wanted to set it in the Islamic Golden Age, because that was the Renaissance period of the region. It’s where science, philosophy, math, architecture, and engineering were all blossoming and flourishing. And so we wanted to show that time period in that region at its peak, at its height, where very intentionally we wanted, and it naturally was, by the way, it was a very gorgeous time.
There was a lot of, and we hopefully expressed that successfully in the game, where they had this beautiful tile work, these gorgeous repeating geometric patterns. And so, we wanted to hit the note of, hey, listen, the Middle East isn’t necessarily only what Call of Duty shows you that it is. It’s a really hard contrast with that. And so we turned to the history books, and we kind of saw what they had to offer. And so it was more of a celebration of the time period and sort of the region there. So we wanted to show it at its ideal. But the actual levels you do go through are in sort of fantastical settings that are based on the Islamic Golden Age and the Middle East. And so we wanted to have a bit of fun there. And that’s where the childlike wonder kind of comes in, right?
So if you look at Pan’s Labyrinth, for example, one of the big inspirations that we had from there was “the real world,” in that it’s quite sort of absent of much contrast and color. And then she travels to the town, the proverbial rabbit hole, and is in this sort of wondrous, and for the most part, “other” world, right? That’s good and bad. But yeah, that to us really kind of… We love that contrast. So we kind of look to that as early inspiration.
Q. And I think it’s a really great way to kind of do it. The kind of juxtaposition of a sadder narrative focused on a world that’s really beautiful and filled with colors is always interesting because you’re dealing with things, but there’s all this beauty around you, so it can get very difficult to kind of, I guess in a way, see the forest from the trees if you’re not really looking.
Yeah, and just actually to jump in on that real quick. We got really lucky early on, having such an awesome art team, genuinely, where everything they produced was like, “Yes, we want more of that. Any excuse to be using more of this gorgeous stuff that you guys are coming up with. We just want to find somewhere to put it.” And so, yeah, there was no shortage of really gorgeous art. I’m a sucker for beautiful art, to be honest with you. I’m definitely a sucker for beautiful art, beautiful lighting. God rays wherever possible. And so there’s definitely a bit of bias in me as well, if I have to admit, that… If the artists want art, I’ll allow it, for sure.
Q. Hey, there’s nothing wrong with that. When they’ve got it, and you can tell, that’s good. Let them go wild. I always think the best games come from where people are doing what they know really well and what they’re excellent at, and that typically turns into something pretty good, usually.
Hire the best people and get out of their way.
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Q. Yes, absolutely. So many people want to get in their way. Just move. Just let them do what they do.
Let them cook.
Q. Exactly. It’ll be good. I promise. I believe a voice-acted puzzle game is pretty rare. I’ve played a good bit of puzzle games, and most of them are kind of about the visual narrative that you’re seeing. It’s more about what you can pick up from the environment versus what’s kind of happening, like a narrative story. When did you kind of realize that you wanted it to be a fully voice-acted game instead of something that was more about the player’s experience in the world and more about the narrative?
When we first started this project, my idea was no dialogue, no text, nothing. And that was like the grand vision that I had. And then once we started writing, there was so much nuance in the writing. And it was also so moving that to do it justice, I think I had to swing in a completely other direction. Now, in a perfect world, you would have micro-expressions on their face so you could see their pores and all the rest of it with UE5. But we felt that if the writing is strong enough, then the rest can be inferred or implied. And so we’re like, well, then what can we give it? We’re a small indie team as well. We don’t have all the budget in the world. And so we felt like, well, if the writing is great and the voice acting is great, then the rest can be filled in, right?
And so the next immediate thought after that is, well, what language? And going back to this idea of authenticity and wanting to sort of celebrate the region, not many games do Arabic VO. Assassin’s Creed Mirage did it recently. But for the record, we were a production before them, and we had this idea as well. But yeah, no, we were like, “Hey, it would be really, really awesome if we did a full-language and Arabic voice cast,” where you look at Ghost of Tsushima, and we kind of normalize this with anime, where we’d have the Japanese voices with English subtitles. Or, you know, Japanese, Japanese, English, Japanese, whatever combination is your fantasy, we wanted to give players that experience. And so we felt like, well, full Arabic voice acting. For those who do speak the language, they would greatly appreciate it, and they’ll be able to sort of really sink their teeth into that. For those who don’t, but just want that in their ear, we thought that would really go a long way to sort of celebrate that time period.
But then, to hit all those emotional notes, voice acting just became more and more the obvious choice for us. And, you know, we’re actually currently in the recording period. And boy, is it moving being in the booth, hearing them, those lines, these lines that you’ve poured over for literally years to finally have them brought to life. There’s so much they bring, these actors, amazing, talented actors and actresses, that bring to the character that you just couldn’t even dream of putting onto the page. They just kind of read between the lines and then some, so it’s awesome. So yeah, no regrets.
Q. I don’t think there should be any regrets. I do a bit of writing myself for video games, so I totally get it. You spend all this time writing and rewriting and editing and fixing things and trying to get it perfect, and then somebody you know says it and does it justice. It feels just like this incredible moment of success where you’re just like, “Yes, finally. We did it. We got there.”
Exactly, yeah. It’s really something amazing.
Q. You talked about how powerful it can be and how emotional it can be, whether it’s sadness, happiness, humor, whatever the case may be. How do you and your team walk that line of too much emotion and then not enough emotion? It can be a hard line to find where you’re kind of insinuating something, but you don’t want to outright be like “this is sad, this is happy, this is whatever,” so how do you guys kind of go about that?
It wasn’t easy, I’ll be honest. We know we’re very sensitive to that when we’re playing games or watching movies ourselves. Where a lot of us have experienced grief firsthand, it’s like, well, this feels like it’s over the top, or this feels like you’re hitting them over the head with it. And we wanted to intentionally try and be subtle with that. And we knew that music was going to do a lot of heavy lifting, as with the vocal performances. We went from wide to narrow.
We initially started with the plot. And we would have, similar to TV and film, writer’s room sessions where we would work through it together and talk about, “Okay, well, Maya has to go from here to here emotionally, and then from here to there. Okay, well, what are the scholars or the surrounding characters experiencing? What are they doing?”
Okay, and once we’ve figured that out, we go a layer deeper than that – so what is being said? And that’s where things kind of get a little bit tricky and quite sensitive. And it’s hard, because when you can write something, and you think “this will sound great,” and then you do a table read, which we did plenty of, and immediately all of us in unison… Oh, that’s not… No. That’s a bit too, A, on the nose, B, a bit too melodramatic, or, also just a bit too much of a sort of Debbie Downer type of thing, right? And can you achieve the same thing by doing less?
And so we pulled back. And eventually, it’s almost like walking through a perfume store and smelling too many different smells. You get a little bit jaded. You find that sort of coffee grains or whatever it is to reset. So, we were on rotation. Some of us would sort of step away and come back to it. And the real litmus test was playtesting. And I remember during one of the play tests a few months ago, I mean, mind you, I’ve been at this for five years now, right? And so… I’m a little bit jaded, a little bit desensitized, to be honest, by these emotional beats, right?
And so this playtester was playing one of the levels about halfway through the game, and after she finished, she asked if she could stop for the day. We had another level to go, and we asked why, and she said she was just so moved by it, in a good way, right? But she was just so moved emotionally by what she had just experienced that she just said, “Wait”, and that genuinely surprised me.
It was a beautiful reminder of, like, this is why we’re doing this, right? Like, I have not been jaded. I’m in the kitchen cooking, and I’m tasting the soup for the hundred thousandth time. But for somebody who it’s gonna be their first time experiencing this, [it’s different]. And of course, that was positive reinforcement, but there were other examples where people were very vocal about, hey, this is a bit too… like the beats aren’t hitting, or the beats are hitting a bit too on the nose, or hitting them over the head too much with it. So, yeah, there are a lot of validation steps, both in the studio and then also externally.
Q. It’s always important to kind of get more feedback than you might want. Cause for you, you’re going to view things very differently than somebody else. And someone was like, “I need to stop because this is. I can’t handle it right now. If I keep going, I’m going to cry.” That’s really awesome. This is a fascinating game. I think a lot of games that try to cover grief end up kind of in a way, missing the point, because it gets a little too gamified along the way. You kind of end up moving between levels, and it becomes like, okay, well, this is going to be this story beat, that’s going to be that story beat, so to kind of be able to create something that’s not just a movement from one thing to the next and is a story that has characters and growth is something really impressive, so congratulations. It sounds very interesting. On that subject, I’ll give you my last couple of questions here. Most puzzle games are a lot about solving mysteries, like solving the overall mystery of the world or whatever the case may be. But this one seems to be a lot more about the journey rather than the destination. Can you maybe talk about some of the inspiration behind that?
Yeah, that’s a great question, man. So one thing is that we didn’t want to have a metaphor for what is sort of the grieving process or grief itself. And these puzzles are supposed to, or these mechanics are one-to-one. No, that’s not how life is. At the same time, we don’t necessarily believe in the traditional five stages of grief. Grief is really messy. The healing process is very messy. Some days are better than others. And so turning back to sort of the inspiration that kind of started this all; how did I grow? How did I get back on my feet when I thought that there wasn’t going to be the lights at the end of the tunnel? I just had to have faith that it would actually be there.
It was hard for me to just get out of bed in the morning. I said, “Can I just do that?” And then the next day was, okay, well, how about it? Can I get up and then take a shower? Okay, once I got my basic needs met, I was like, well, I need to solve for now the new life that I have to now lead. How do I figure out finances? How do I figure out all these boring logistical things after having lost a parent?
And so it was very much problem-solving in my life. And in having to do that, looking back five years later, you’re like, okay, well, the need to solve those things. That is what gave me the tools to go about life. And so that tracks one-to-one with our story and with Maya. She goes on this journey, this fool’s errand of thinking that she can bring her dad back by seeing him. And she dreams about him and convinces herself that there’s a place her dreams can become real.
So she goes on this journey there to try and bring him back. And so the journey that got her there is to turn her from a young lady to a young woman. And so the obstacles that we put in her way and how she has to solve them aren’t going to solve her grief. But having to go through those and sort of be resilient and come out the other side is what will give you the tools to start doing the healing. And so there’s nuance is kind of what it is.
Q. Subtext is everything nowadays. You can’t just say this is how things are. You’ve got to really be able to show that this is a difficulty, this is what it’s like, and this is how it feels, so that’s really awesome to hear. On the subject of Maya’s struggling, I’m assuming the story is a focus on her sort of struggling to accept and maybe not get past her grief, but sort of… There’s not a good word for this, is there? I guess deal with the loss in her own way, whatever way that might be. But yeah, is that sort of what the focus of the story is, just in general? Or is it more nuanced than that?
Right. Bingo. So the story starts right after Maya finds out that she has lost her dad. Her dad was away at sea and passed away. And so we pick up the story right then and there. And so the wound is very fresh. And so she’s in denial in many ways. And so, having received the news and then starting to dream about him, and then shortly after start hearing about this place where dreams can become real, she’s like, “Well, I’m not going to mourn him because I can go see him and go be with him.” It was not even a thought in her mind at the start of it.
And so, as the journey sort of progresses, obviously her thoughts and her opinions start to change. She starts to learn things around her, and so it’s seeing how some of her initial hypotheses start to change, and there are outside forces, the antagonist.
Without giving too much away, the antagonist in our story has sort of her own set of motives where she tries to manipulate Maya. And also at the same time, you have this sort of chorus of scholars that all have their own thoughts and feelings, and opinions. The goal stays, the initial goal stays the same, but Maya’s thoughts on the matter sort of shift throughout. But again, it’s not about how you do this. It’s not a sort of playbook of how grief is overcome, but rather how there is light at the end of the tunnel, even if you don’t see it.
Q. Yeah, beautiful. That’s really great, because you can’t just tell somebody how to deal with something. As you said earlier, it’s different for everybody. Everybody experiences it differently. Everybody handles it differently. So I only have one more question left, and we’re a little over time here, but getting a little lighter in subject matter here; something sort of about the gameplay. In the trailer, it seems like Maya has quite a few different powers or abilities at her disposal. Will these get more intricate as you progress? Will one ability get a new ability on top of it, or is it more about how you utilize them in tandem for your puzzle solving?
Yeah, it’s a little bit of both, because Maya’s core ability set does grow over time. Maya can change the state of objects from glass to metal to ether and a couple of other things, but what’s changing between levels is the environment itself, since each level is based around a scholar and their work. The puzzles, by nature, will change. While Maya’s mechanics or core abilities will stay, as she unlocks more, they will stay the same; she just gets more of them.
The way that you use them, and therefore the way you think about them, will change over time. And so between levels, it’s almost like a palate cleanser you get. You have to sort of build on what came before. We try and challenge the player throughout the game, even towards the very end. It’s not just more of the same. It’s actually, you know, let’s try and give you a different perspective on the same core mechanics that you said that you do have.
Q. I always think that’s a little more interesting. I watched the trailer a couple of times. I was trying so hard to figure out what some of her powers were. There’s this wall, and then it doesn’t look made of anything, and then suddenly it’s reflecting a beam, and I was like, I don’t know what I’m looking at right now.
“I need to see more of this. I need to speak to Faris and get to the bottom of this.”
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Q. Yeah, I was like, I gotta figure this out. So yeah, that was really cool. I am out of my planned questions. I did want to give you sort of an open-ended way to just say whatever it is you might want to say, anything you might want players to know, just anything like that at all.
Oh man, we’ve covered so much. Maybe I guess that sort of a random, miscellaneous bit that I personally do love. While this is Maya’s story and her journey, and sort of how she sort of grows from losing her parent, other scholars also lost somebody, so to Maya, it was her dad, but to one scholar, it was their best friend. To somebody else, maybe an ex-lover; quite different things. And so I would hope that players can maybe find some moments there where they empathize with it.
If they haven’t lost a parent, maybe lost somebody else, they might find that they can relate to some of the scholars depending on their personal situation. Because, yeah, when someone passes, there’s a crater that gets left in their wake. And that means different things to different people. And we loved that we had kind of a wonderful idiosyncratic cast. We were able to sort of thread that tidbit through. And seeing how different people handle sort of the same situation. So that’s a little nugget, I think. Hopefully, people will enjoy it when they pick up on it.
Q. I think a lot of people are going to find this really different and really moving, just based on what I’ve seen and what we’ve talked about today. That’s all I have for you today. Thank you so much for your time. This was incredible, and I honestly cannot wait to see a lot more. It seems incredibly interesting and, I’ve not really heard of a lot like this, so it’ll be really, really interesting to get my hands on it at some point, whenever that is.
Thank you, thank you. Hopefully, very, very soon. We want to get this in everybody’s hands ASAP. We’re so keen on having the world experience it, so thank you so much for your time. Awesome questions, so super fun. Thank you.
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